SURVIVING THE UNTHINKABLE Penny Fisher

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Welcome to another compelling episode of the AMPD UP211 Podcast.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Today we have an extraordinary guest who has faced unbelievable challenges

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_07]: and emerged stronger than ever.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Penny Fisher, a former model and now an author and motivational speaker,

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_07]: joins us to share her harrowing yet inspiring journey of survival and resilience.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Imagine being on a family vacation enjoying the sunshine and within days,

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_07]: finding yourself in a coma with just a 10% chance of survival.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Penny was struck by toxic shock syndrome, a rare and life-threatening condition

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_07]: that led to multiple amputations and a fight for her very existence.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Against all odds she's not only survived but has thrived,

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_07]: turning her experience into a powerful story of determination and hope.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey everyone please welcome to the show Penny Fisher.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: How are you Penny?

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm okay, how are you Rick?

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_07]: So good to see you and I'm trying to think how many guests I've had

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_07]: that are actually from the native state of Illinois.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to say Dave was the only one, Dave Krupa from Romp.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So you're, are you in Illinois right now?

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm in the suburbs, the north shore of Chicago.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Got it, got it.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I grew up in Palatine area, born in Chicago but grew up in the northwest suburbs.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm very much an Illinois person.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I live right on the Illinois-Indiana border right now so I am in Indiana

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_07]: but we're actually taping from Joliet, Illinois today so

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_07]: we're not too terribly far from each other but it's rare for me to

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_07]: you know actually interview someone who's in the same time zone as me.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of coordination that goes on with people in the UK and all over the world so

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: again thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm so happy that you were able to share some time with our audience.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the thing I want to talk about first with you

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_07]: and of course I've done plenty of reading and know quite a bit about your journey thus far and

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: your incredible comeback story coming back from toxic shock syndrome which is

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_07]: it's kind of a terrifying sort of condition for myself to kind of research because

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_07]: it's something that for you it's such an emergent thing when something like that happens

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_07]: it's as if the clock is ticking.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Very dramatic.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes it's not.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_09]: That's why I felt like I had to write a book about it to document how insane it was.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly and I want to talk about your book today as well.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the thing I want to ask you first if you could describe briefly

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: what your life was like before that vacation you took so if someone were to have met you

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_07]: before you were diagnosed with TSS how would you have described your life?

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_09]: I was raising two beautiful young children that were adorable very close in age.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_09]: At the time they were six and eight and my girlfriend called me and she said we decided

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_09]: that of everybody you know you have the most aspirational life because your husband adores

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_09]: you you have a big beautiful house and all you do is go to the country club with the kids

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_09]: and I said I do have a great life I really do and then the trip happened and things just

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_09]: turned on a dime and all I could say is part one was pretty problem-free in the most part

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_09]: but I kind of outlined in the book that it really wasn't and part two came when I woke up

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_09]: the coma so there was a long terrible 48 hours where you know I was sick and nobody was taking

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_09]: me seriously but then I woke up three months later to a very very scary reality.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah and your coma your coma was induced wasn't it?

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_09]: It was induced but then I didn't come out so three months of life I missed

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_09]: and I woke up in the new year.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And it sounds like from what I've read you that coma was induced because of your

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I was in so much terrible pain and usually and I've read other accounts they that's kind

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_09]: of a standard thing that when some you know the patient is under such duress and they have

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_09]: to do serious triage they put the patient asleep so their body's not moving.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah and you know toxic shock syndrome if I'm understanding it correctly it's when a particular

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_07]: bacteria gets into your bloodstream correct?

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And shuts it down.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Shuts it down, shuts down organs, shuts down you know can have a tremendous effect on some of the

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_07]: most important organs like your lungs and your heart and things like that.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And if you could explain how that leads to loss of circulation in outer extremities?

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_09]: You know it's funny there I think there's two or three different reasons why my limbs ran out

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_09]: oxygen but one of them was in order to save my life they used something very dramatic called

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_09]: vasopressors and that does remove the blood from your from your extremities and puts them

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_09]: to your you know heart and lungs so you can breathe and make it through the night.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm pretty sure that they told my family that once I had the vasopressors that would be

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_09]: the byproduct but I was already starting to turn black from necrotizing fasciitis and that is

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_09]: kind of the death knell of your body.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah so your family was actually told this is going to likely occur like she's going to

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: experience some form of limb loss it's pretty much guaranteed.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah and they said life over limb and everybody said life.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_09]: I was already in the coma so I didn't make that decision I just woke up to the decision.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_07]: But I would imagine that would have been your decision as well.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course yes.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I mean your beautiful family you're I mean you got this you know this wonderful

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_07]: charmed life why wouldn't you want to salvage what you could given that set of circumstances?

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_07]: The other thing I found fascinating about this incredibly traumatic event in your life

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_07]: is it would appear as if during your coma you went to a completely other place.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean that describe that.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Well I sent you my near-death experience and after this happened 14 years ago I started

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_09]: really getting serious.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean I was writing the book for the last 14 years because it was a lot of journal entries

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_09]: that I strung together into a book.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But 10 years ago I got very serious and I wrote it as if it were the Greek Odyssey

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_09]: because it was like an Odyssey of 10 years to get back to my original life.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But I would say that to answer your original question which was

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Rick close it down for a sec.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_09]: It's okay.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_09]: What was your original question?

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_09]: I went off on a tangent.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry you were asking me the original question was what I had read was that

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_07]: when you were in your coma you've described it almost as this other place.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_07]: That you went to.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay let's go back to it yes because that's the important part.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you want to do a marker Brian?

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_07]: You're okay okay so I'm going to ask you the question again.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Then you can answer it.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_07]: You know Penny what fascinates me too is that when I've read up on you

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_07]: when you were in that coma for three months it would appear as if you went

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_07]: to another place.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Can you describe that for the audience?

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes while I was sleeping I was aware when I was in the coma I was aware this was a

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: life or death and I was aware of everything that was going on but I was aware that I

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_09]: could not communicate so I was getting deeper and deeper into these crazy coma

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_09]: like dreams where it was always life and death.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_09]: You know I'd be on a peaceful river on a peaceful raft and I knew that if I

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_09]: went around the corner that near death or certain death would take me over and

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_09]: so I was always trying to turn the raft around.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_09]: So these were different kind of dreams that kept happening over and over again

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_09]: and the final dream that culminated and it kind of lined up to the time that I

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_09]: actually was pronounced dead for like a second.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_09]: I remember the vision of coming back to life.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I remember the vision of you know almost going to a very blissful very peaceful very

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: problem free grief free pain free life and I was about to go and then I remembered my two

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_09]: children and I asked the person that I was going with if I could turn back and he

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_09]: said yes.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_09]: He snapped his fingers and the light went on and that was when I came back.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow yeah and I you know I did have a chance to see your interview on Steve Harvey

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_07]: and it seemed like some of the focus of that particular news piece was you know here's someone

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_07]: that kind of credits their children as their purpose their purpose for like you mentioned

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_07]: coming back to life which is a pretty powerful and compelling story because you know I've never

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_07]: had you know a near-death experience.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I've had plenty of surgeries but you know under anesthesia it's like I always compare

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: it to like you're there you snap your fingers and then you're back and that could be like

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_07]: four or five hours later but in my mind I blinked and then I woke up so when I

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_07]: about someone like yourself three months in a coma going on this sort of twilight journey

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_07]: and you've even described it as some of the conversations that were occurring around you

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_07]: were woven into some of those experiences that you had while you were in a coma.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_07]: To me it's extraordinary have you ever I mean have you ever really sort of like

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_07]: dove into that with like someone or spoken to someone?

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been wanting to and trying to. I've gone and seen people that also you know had near-death

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_09]: experiences but I was in the audience and never got to connect with them afterwards.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's almost always the same kind of rhetoric. For me I think I said very clearly that music

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_09]: played a huge part in it but everybody that I saw connected the dots to some kind of heavenly

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_09]: music and orchestra of the universe and mine was I think you see Jimi Hendrix in the back

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_09]: but mine was The Beatles. I actually had the book of John Lennon laying by my bedside and a friend

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_09]: was reading it to me and as I was dying and I think if she had not come in my room at the

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_09]: time because this was a friend that flew in the middle of the night to get to me I was

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_09]: out of town and she flew in and she was a mom friend that I had just gotten close to.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_09]: She flew in took the first flight out and she came to an empty hospital. My late husband

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_09]: had finally gone home to have some rest and it was empty and they said call the family back

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_09]: she's not going to make it. So in order to comfort herself and me she started reading John

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Lennon while I heard her voice as a heavenly narration and it sounded as if you know she

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_09]: was reading about Jesus Christ to me like somebody whose aura just makes you healed

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_09]: and I started feeling this bliss and I was floating towards that music and the music was

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_09]: getting louder and louder. I had goosebumps talking about it and the flowers were getting

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_09]: bigger and bolder more beautiful and then I remembered my kids. I asked whoever the

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_09]: godlike figure was if I could go back to my kids and he said yes.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_09]: So I mean I was there and it did change my perspective and I think every time I get a

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_09]: down about because I think I'm not sure if we've announced to the viewers how much

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_09]: injury I've sustained but every time that I'm sad about it I do kind of go back to that

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_07]: near-death experience and it gives me hope. Yeah and that's a perfect segue because

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_07]: you're waking up from a coma and you're realizing that you have this you know and

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I might be misspeaking but this sort of like necrotic tissue you have this

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_07]: you know these outer extremities that are of serious concern and you lost a

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_07]: one leg part of one leg below the knee correct? Below the knee right?

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Below the knee I know you're a right below the knee and I have a right half foot and

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I'll tell you about that in a minute. That was the biggest problem that I sustained and then all

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_09]: these fingers which look perfectly natural. Yeah. I'm gonna shock the viewers but

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_09]: well I'll do it with this hand. These are all prosthetics so I'm kind of the six million

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_09]: dollar woman. Yes for sure. Walking around with a lot of prosthetics. For sure yeah. I

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_09]: mean I walk in the room I look perfectly put together and then when I start taking things

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_09]: off I shock people and that's okay. I like a little shock. Yeah it makes you way more

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_07]: interesting. I just have a curiosity I'm a leg amputee so of course I see someone

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_07]: that has fingers prosthetic fingers how do they attach? I literally just stick them on

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and they're really bothersome. I mean I've gone I don't know if this is you know this

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_09]: part of my book but my wonderful beautiful husband just couldn't handle what was happening to me

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_09]: and he couldn't handle it and I said if you can't handle it get out because I have to

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_09]: save my strength and raise the kids and do everything and recover. Yeah so the reason

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm bringing it up is because I started jading around yeah you know like a year later let's

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_09]: say and I'd be on the date and I'd tell everybody up front what was happening but they would never

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_09]: seem to understand the real shock of what was going on so like I'd be on a date and my finger

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_09]: would fall off. Oh my gosh. And if the guy didn't understand or didn't laugh about it

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I couldn't go out with them again because it was so ridiculously funny that yeah you have

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_09]: to laugh. I mean there's time I'm out with all my friends and they're in the snow looking

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_09]: for my finger. So that's what best friends are for. Find my finger. Does that stay on just as

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_09]: like a form of suction? Is that what it is? It is a form of suction and if I lose weight or if

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_09]: it's you know a cold temperature out these things will fall off without me planning it.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're saying that the residual foot that you have actually gives you more trouble

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_09]: than the loss of your other leg? Yes I'm glad you said that. So in order to save most of that

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_09]: foot they had to cut it right where the knuckles were. Think about how painful that is right

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_09]: where the knuckles were so it kind of like bends like that. Like I always feel like my

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_09]: feet are clenched in a fist and they took skin off my leg, they skinned my leg and

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_09]: sewed it on the edge of the foot and they said this foot's going to give you a lot of problems

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and I figured well it's not something I can't you know survive. I've survived everything but

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_09]: it was painful for a good 12 years. I just got out of pain two years ago. Yeah and

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_09]: pain's still pretty bad like it limits me but I'm holding on for dear life. A lot of

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_09]: people in my position have amputated the second foot because it's just in the way.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Like I would have probably joined my friends that were doing the Olympics and I didn't because I

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_07]: was in too much pain on my right foot. And do you feel like that you've reached a point now

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_07]: where that's never going to be a possibility? Like you're good with what you have and you

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_07]: don't think that you'd ever have a need to go further up your leg? I'm just hanging on

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_09]: for your life on it and it was infected for many many years like there was a threat to

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_09]: you know the toxic shock that had landed in my foot and I had some pain and some residual

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_09]: infection but I thought so hard to save it that it's here to stay now. Yeah and adapting

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean you're a massive exercise in adaptation. The finger issue is that functional meaning can

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_07]: you do anything with it or is it more do you feel like that's more of a okay but then if

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_09]: it's in the way like I could use chopsticks with it because they're you know longer than

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_09]: my little short stubby fingers but certain times if I'm typing or whatever that goes that gets

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_07]: in the way. Got it got it and as far as your the leg that is amputated below the knee

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_07]: you employ more of a let's call it a traditional prosthesis right? Yes. How do you do with that?

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Has that been pretty good for you? Yes but in fact that was the least problematic of all

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_09]: the injuries but lately and I don't know why I'm having a lot of phantom pain which is

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you have phantom pain but it's like an electric shock going through the

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_09]: system and it hits so hard you just are buckled down like you can't even get up. Yeah I do.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah no I don't know. Go ahead. Sorry. No you're fine. I was gonna say that when I cook and clean

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_09]: more than usual that's when it hurts because it's short distances working back and forth and

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it hits the back of my knee hard and then I like a few hours later can't breathe

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah so no cooking cleaning. Yeah that's convenient right?

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. No I was gonna say everyone I've spoken to about phantom pain it's usually a combination of

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_07]: there's a whole spectrum of different things that tend to bring it on. I have heard that

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_07]: for some people it's activity in general, for others it is a specific activity

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_07]: believe it or not on the other side of that I have folks that'll say the less active I am

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_07]: the more I experience phantom pain so I think it's just case by case kind of situation.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I have not been able to track what's causing mine it all the phantom pain monster only visits

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_07]: me maybe one to two times per month so I'm pretty fortunate that it only usually lasts for

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_07]: about 48 hours. I completely lose sleep. That's a lot honestly that's more than I have.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I'll lose yeah I'll lose sleep for a couple of days and it comes in in waves

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's consistent so it's not like I'm kind of like okay when's the next thing coming it just

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_07]: it comes then it subsides for a few minutes then it comes back it subsides. 48 hours long time

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_07]: to be in that much pain. Do you take muscle relaxers because that helps? You know I'm a

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not really a fan of anything over the counter. My kidney doc is pretty rigid about allowing me

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_07]: to even take certain supplements and it's one of those I just have to muscle through it.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_07]: It never lasts longer than that period and then once it's gone it's completely gone and I'm

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_07]: 100% pain free. I can do anything that I want so I think in my mind and maybe you feel this way

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_07]: too pain management it can be a combination of things and for someone like yourself that has

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_07]: multiple you know amputations infections various forms of pain so much of it yes

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_07]: can be treated you know with some sort of medical device or or prescription but then

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_07]: that mental piece where we as humans again that form of adaptation I've learned over the years

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_07]: how to cope with pain and how to distract myself from the pain that's occurring

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_09]: and there's even I always take the help if I have an available pill of some sort that's

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_09]: subside this torture you know in the next 20 minutes I'm all in but I'm not you know

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not somebody that will go above and beyond what the prescription is you know I'll take

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_09]: and I remember it's funnier on this subject because in the beginning I was afraid to

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_09]: take the help and my brother who's a scientist had a lot of talks with me and said you

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_09]: don't have an addictive personality you're in severe pain what's why not take the help and

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I took the help and I was able to get on with my life yeah so I'm one of the few people that

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_09]: probably should have you know the pain pills and I took them as needed and never really abused

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_09]: it yeah well that's good for you and I was open about it I never had felt like I had

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_07]: anything to hide right you know yeah and and pain is different for everyone everyone's struggle

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_07]: is very real and whatever works whatever gets you through and as long as it's with

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_07]: doctor supervision and you're you're creating good healthy boundaries with it I think that

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_07]: um you know that self-advocacy piece is critical in that situation so you know people

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_09]: you know I talk to people I could have raised my kids unless I had the extra help oh sure there

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_09]: were times you know I was alone and they weren't driving yet I think we got I was on my own as a

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_09]: single mom I think three years out so I woke up in 2019 and then maybe three years later

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I was on my own so nobody was driving yet and I needed the strength to get up and drive

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean I'm not saying I drove heavily medicated but I'm saying whatever I could do to make myself

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_09]: autonomous again and mobile yeah um and you know how the winters are in the Midwest I mean

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_09]: there were times and I wrote about it in my book that I just have to get up in the worst

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_09]: conditions and drive or just make dinner or anything normal mom stuff yeah now raising a

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_07]: family is is it's a massive task and you need to be mobile and you need to be well you know

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_07]: to approach it with a clear head um so I want to talk a little bit too about um your modeling

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_07]: and can you give me some history on that everyone this is Rick Bonkowski from the amped

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_07]: up to 11 podcast every so often I come across a product that I just want to tell our entire

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[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: to do is use one finger to open it which is so much more easy than the old ones it's

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: ridiculous that we have to have that we don't have all of our pill bottles like this

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: as an occupational therapist I see people having difficulties with daily tasks all the time

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and opening pill containers is the most frustrating task I hear when it comes to opening

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: medication and stuff like that this is pretty cool I can just like push it like this

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: bam look at that and one handed no fighting so these are cool I like it these are so easy to

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_05]: open I want to be able to do my meds independently get these out there there's a lot of us it's easy

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[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: easily slide it to open I would go there put it in my pharmacy right now

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I wish this was at my pharmacy because it would help a lot of people I need this

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: we need to make this in every pharmacy available wow I stopped in my tracks when I saw it

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[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: life-changing for many learn more at snapslide.com I was a c-rated model because

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_09]: I never really put a lot of time and energy I think in my book I kind of outlined that

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I had a long illustrious career in fashion as it was I was a clothing designer and salesperson

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_09]: for multiple lines and what happened was I befriended a couple of the ladies that own

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_09]: the modeling agencies you know because I used models and so when I retired my business

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I was a part-time model and I mostly did live modeling because I you know I like to talk as

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_09]: you can see yeah well I did a lot of fashion shows and I did a lot of trade shows and

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_09]: really I always used my personality it wasn't just I was not really fabulous with the

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_07]: photography modeling so you know I when I hear that you know fashion

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_07]: you know runway modeling sort of putting your out yourself out there in that let's call it you

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_07]: know beauty and um you know fashion kind of space amazing I mean that's we were talking

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_09]: about it last night I was with my best friends and we talked about the first time they met me

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_09]: I was wearing you know an ultra mini skirt real high boots that's how I dressed I was a mod

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_09]: squad kind of person and I had to reinvent myself is that what you're kind of like I had to

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_09]: reinvent my fashion so I felt comfortable with being who I was well that's that's a perfect

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_07]: segue because my question was going to be how do you how do you transition how do you

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_07]: get comfortable again coming from that place where you know appearances are a commodity

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_07]: it's part of your identity anyone that's in that whether you're an actor you know a model

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_07]: you know a celebrity it's it's part of your currency it's it's part of your worth

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_09]: and there's nothing well I had already gotten over that by moving to the suburbs and having

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_09]: children and becoming you know more of more or less a housewife I was still doing a little

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_09]: real estate on the side but I think that what I had to say goodbye to that lifestyle a little

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_09]: bit earlier but um by the time this had happened I was not holding on to my looks

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I was just trying to survive number one and number two um I wrote this in my book um there

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_09]: were a lot of moms that weren't really particularly welcoming to me when I first moved to the suburbs

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_09]: and I had young kids and I didn't know why and when I woke up from the coma those same ladies

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_09]: that were kind of um knocking me more or less said why and they said I would no matter what

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_09]: they had done to me I always smiled and said hi anyway and I was always nice anyway

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah so I woke up to a lot of love and admiration from people I never expected it from you know

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I had spent three months recovering and there was a box filled with letters from people in the community

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_09]: so I had a lot of courage and confidence to walk into the community and smiling and telling

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_09]: everybody I was okay and it made a lot of people a little humbled that had maybe prejudged me

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_07]: and why do you think there was a level of prejudgment did you ever was that ever sort

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_09]: of figured out yeah they said that they didn't give me a change like this is how I wake up

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_09]: looking like this is me my hair looks like you know in some and I'll get back to that in a

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_09]: minute um it's not like I spend hours on a glam squad I mean if my hair is clean

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_09]: and I put on a little concealer I'm having a pretty good day at that point but these women

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_09]: thought I was dialing up just to go pick up my kids from nursery school they thought I was like

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_09]: some kind of queen or something you know walking in and like yeah it sounds petty

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_09]: it sounds petty and jealous to me it was however I want to say that um

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the fact that I did look good believe it or not going into that hospital

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_09]: cost me very dearly 12 or 30 hours of my yeah like what my life what could be wrong with you

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_09]: you're a beautiful woman you're like well I do remember I'm dying here I do remember that um

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_09]: nobody was taking me seriously now I was sun tanned my hair looked like this probably

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_09]: and I remember being driven into the ambulance and the

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_09]: nurses were they woke me up giggling and I said what and they said you don't look sick

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_09]: we just read your charts and you're very sick you might be dying but you just look fine

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah and I said but I'm not fine we kind of giggled about it and then they said

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_09]: and your age um I'm older you know I'm 60 I'm turning 64 soon so um they were like we just

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_09]: couldn't believe it so when I came into that emergency room the young doctor was like rolling

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_09]: his eyes at me thought I was a drama queen I was screaming about my pelvis he's like yeah

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_09]: so things can work for you and things can work against you and it's not always

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_09]: what seems like a blessing is not always a blessing oh for sure you know what I'm gonna be me

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_09]: you know I used to say I swear when I first moved here I thought should I just dumb it down

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_09]: a bit and not wash my hair or something and everybody said no don't you dare yeah yeah no

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_07]: it's an interesting lens that you're presenting because yeah people make assumptions people have

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_07]: preconceived notions about someone that might excuse me be somewhat glamorous or

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe more attractive than what they're used to from the mother next door and especially in

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_07]: medical situations coming into that and people saying well on the outside you seem just fine

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_07]: but you know you know maybe you're just being dramatic and this is attention-seeking behavior

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_07]: and we're just going to dismiss this and send you back to where you were only to find out that

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_07]: you were in a critical state and you were essentially dying and I don't know why I feel

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_09]: compelled to tell you this but um I'll never forget that I needed to go to the bathroom when

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_09]: I was on the stretcher and at this point I couldn't walk anymore so I want to interject

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I not only had toxic shock syndrome but I had septic shock which is level four of you know

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_09]: sepsis and you know you're dying with certainty when you have sepsis because you know something's

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_09]: terribly wrong with your body and I remember I could barely speak and I asked a nurse

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_09]: to carry me to the bathroom um and I was walking on either side of the nurses and they

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_09]: were carrying me to the bathroom I guess they didn't they couldn't get a wheelchair in time

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_09]: and the doctor the same doctor was on the phone he looked up for it I thought in my mind I thought

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_09]: this is going to make him take me seriously and he looked up and he like and kept talking

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know sometimes I think things come your way and it's more like that's just what's

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_09]: happening like he just was an unusual case and he was just put in my way for some certain reason

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah yeah well and it and you've had a lot of time to process that and I do want to talk

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_07]: about your book what's the name of the book again I'm gonna hold it up can I hold it up

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_09]: please do even better it's called after shock after reinventing myself one piece at a time

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_09]: it's a very short book and it's really written it starts out obviously with the tragic events

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_09]: that led up to it but it's really written to show resilience and humor and how you can get

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_09]: through anything that seems insurmountable because I remember waking up and said how am I going to

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_09]: pull this one off and how am I going to get back to it I did I figured it out yeah no it's

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted the book to be incredible uh memoir and you know I'm definitely going to get it because

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_07]: so much of those layers right of those experiences it's all in the details

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_07]: what you went through those quiet moments those terrifying moments all of that

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_07]: that shapes us and brings us to where we are now and I think about my own you know path

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_07]: medically and very much when I was going through a lot of my illness

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel as if I had sort of closed myself off from any of those kind of feelings because being

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_07]: in survival mode to me meant I can't think about the potentiality of death I can't think

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_07]: about the potentiality of how this is going to affect my loved ones and the people

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_07]: that I was surrounded by but now that I've created so much distance from that time in my

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_07]: you know many years ago I do have days Penny where I mourn I'm sad about what happened

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_07]: and I feel that there are moments where I process that all these years later now

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: and I've made mention of this to family and they're like wow you know that kind of makes

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_07]: sense you were so strong at that time we'd always you know we'd be driving home from the hospital

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you know leaving you you know leaving your room and you come in the whirlwind and you're

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_09]: talking about such a good thing I watch this she's gonna what's happening the lady's coming

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_09]: oh okay we have a visitor everyone or no um Jola she's in her bedroom I'm recording something

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_09]: good to see you honey um you need we I have great help they come and go that's nice nobody

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_07]: lived in they come and go that's nice yeah so for me it's hearing people say yeah you know

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_07]: leave you and we knew you knew you'd been in the hospital for weeks and um we'd comment like he's

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_07]: so strong and he doesn't seem down or sad or he's he's the one telling the jokes he's the one

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_07]: lifting us up and that's I felt compelled to do that too yeah it was like it you know it

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_07]: this exercise and I have to protect them from what's happening to me

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_09]: yes you know that's the first time I've ever talked to somebody about that that's absolutely

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_09]: true yeah I guess we're people pleasers or maybe everybody is

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I I was going to say um in answer to that

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_09]: I felt more love and more connection after I woke up than I had ever felt in my life

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_09]: um I had found out and I had heard their voices by the way in my dreams that my best

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_09]: girlfriends that have been my best girlfriends um they were there for three months every day

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_09]: so I remember my father-in-law saying to me you don't have good friends you have great friends

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_09]: because they didn't just come for the initial shock they came and spent every day here for

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_09]: three months yeah they've been involved with every part of your recovery and I took that again

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_09]: another thing I took the help whoever wanted to come over whoever wanted to see my blood or my

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_09]: injuries they were welcome to it I had nothing to hide yeah and as soon as I gave myself over

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_09]: let myself be vulnerable I think I was recovering more right no like if you hold it

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_09]: it's just going to cause those pains in your body well like like I mentioned I you know received

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_07]: a kidney transplant and um I remember uh going you know going through dialysis for 18 months

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_07]: and being in kidney failure um but you know are you still on dialysis oh no no I'm I'm

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_07]: neither and I was on it too for the first yeah no I'm I'm uh I'm over seven years now

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_07]: successful transplant so thank god yeah um five years is like the threshold when the doctor

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_07]: says you're you're out of the woods like you're probably going to die with this kidney um so

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm very fortunate in that regard but but echoing what you were saying about accepting

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_07]: the help my medical team came to me and they and they said well when are you going to start

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_07]: the campaign and I said what campaign am I running for office like what are you talking

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_07]: about and they said well you know based on your health based on how you're how you're

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_07]: reacting to treatment being dialysis you're you're not going to make it like it's five

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_07]: to seven years to wait for a cadaver donor in Illinois they're like you're three four months

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_07]: in and and we can tell you with absolute certainty you will not make it five to seven

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_07]: years you won't and you need a live donor and that starts today you need to put it out

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_07]: now keep in mind coming from traditional midwestern values and my family was not

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_07]: comfortable with broadcasting um to the world uh hey we need a kidney and putting yourself out

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_07]: there is a very vulnerable space to essentially put your tin cup out and say is so what happened

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_07]: well I was really fortunate that an anonymous donor came forward who I met who I met the day

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_07]: before my surgery we are we are very very close friends she refers us as we're like kidney

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_09]: siblings she's my kidney sister what was her impetus to do that for you and like how did

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_07]: how was she found like what it's a great question my my ex um my my ex-father-in-law

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_07]: who is now passed was talking about me at work he was just talking to talking to co-workers

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_07]: oh my you know my son-in-law is sick and god you know I you know I pray I pray we can

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_07]: find him a kidney and this and that and the other and she was within earshot her name is

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Wendy Wendy was within earshot and she heard him talking and this is the way she describes it

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_07]: she said I heard him talking and I knew I had to help this man that's what I'm saying I think

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_09]: that again this woman is a woman a blood and blood and flesh woman but she's also an angel

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_09]: like your life and that's why I felt the need to write a book reads like a book and

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_09]: sometimes things just kind of come out of left field that are meant to be and they save you

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_09]: you have to be open to that exactly you know it brought me a little closer to religion this

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_09]: whole thing and I'm I was born Jewish and I'm Jewish but do I now believe that there is a

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Christ-like figure in my life yeah I do yeah can I explain it no right that lady was your

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I have goosebumps like how random is that oh it is it is and I recall I was I was with Loyola

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_07]: at the time I'm with Northwestern now but when I was with Loyola they came to me and they said

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_07]: we have a perfect match do you want to meet her and I mean I was like absolutely they said

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_07]: well she's she's filed as anonymous however now that we know you would like to meet her

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_07]: this is now her option meaning we will ask her if she chooses to we can facilitate that

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_07]: if she says no I would just like to remain anonymous please understand you need to respect

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_07]: her wishes and you know just take it as a blessing that you're getting a kidney

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_07]: and fortunately she agreed and we met the day we were both doing our pre-op testing

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_07]: just a couple doors away from each other the day before the surgery

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_07]: and I met her just in a small little waiting area of the hospital and I can't tell you Penny

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_07]: how nervous I was how do you how do you have an interaction with someone like you said flesh and

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_07]: blood that has made a decision to save your life a stranger's life exactly who does not know

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_09]: this might be probing but like were there family members that were going to offer but

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_09]: it wasn't a good match like how does that work it's it's it's a really good question

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's something that I to this day I struggle with and you know I was talking to my even

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_07]: recently I was talking to my girlfriend Sarah about it my brother could not donate he's a

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_07]: diabetic so he was a no-go my parents were way too old so they were just ruled out immediately

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_07]: my sister never came forward and I had a couple of of friends like childhood friends

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_07]: that wanted to get tested never got tested and I come from a large family not a single cousin

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_07]: came forward so as someone who in the here and now I not often but will visit that place of

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_07]: wow is dying there and like nobody thought yeah let's let's see if I'm a match or let's see

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_07]: if we can because that's there's a lot of conflictive feelings there there's on the

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_07]: one hand like you know like what the hell like I'm dying here like help me out but then it

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_09]: it goes to um like how long did that go on before that woman found you and you found

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_07]: that woman like three years two years well I went right into emergency dialysis when my

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_07]: failed I was in dialysis for 18 months but I believe Wendy was tested about a year into my

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_07]: dialysis and then it took about six months for her to go through the rigorous testing

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_07]: you know all the whatever they do you know there's there's all these various things that

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_07]: determine who's a good match took about six months and then I had a successful transplant

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_09]: and tell you something that I think is going to set your mind and your heart free

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_09]: there was probably just hesitation because people weren't in the know

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_09]: and if you had started your campaign by saying you can transfer a kidney with no real

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_09]: damage to your own body and if you were really desperate and you were five years a lot six

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_09]: years along people would have come out of the woodwork I think this was in the beginning and

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_09]: there was a temporary pause because everybody was like I don't know what to do here and then

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_09]: this woman stepped up that's my feeling yeah no I weren't far out and people weren't saying

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_09]: no they were just confused and like conflicted no I think that's right I think you're right

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_07]: because there is a lot of and and you probably have heard plenty of nonsense about

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_07]: you know your own diagnosis people generally tend to be misinformed on these things

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah and scaredy scared there's very few people that are super duper brave I found

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_09]: um and you know what it's a good way to put it with that kind of

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_09]: personality you know maybe again that's why we were chosen to go through what we went

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_09]: through because we are brave and we could withstand it yeah and do you do you find now

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_07]: given this odyssey that you've gone through really an odyssey it really is and and to be

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_07]: functioning as well as you are now and enjoying the things that you do and you've

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_07]: you've traversed right you've transcended you you've adapted and yes not not discounting

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_07]: the difficult days you and I we we have our phantom pains we have our our weird looks when

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_07]: limbs come off and all the emotional stuff that you know those those weird kind of

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_07]: awkward interactions that can occur um what how would you describe your lens now

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_07]: when you approach the basic joys so glad you're asking this question um

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_09]: so we talked a little bit about you know my appearance and what how people treated me back

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_09]: then um I would say that I've been able and I'm gonna cry about it um I've been able to

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_09]: connect on a deeper level with everybody more from you know you saw that my helper my

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_09]: housekeeper just came in we're very close like I finish almost every conversation with I love you

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_09]: or I'll see you later or um I was always probably warm and fuzzy but I think people

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_09]: just treated me a certain way based on certain things and now I have a deeper closer

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_09]: connection because I'm the real thing and they know it now yeah yeah I have to echo that

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_07]: because unlike you I wasn't so warm and fuzzy you know previous

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_09]: and I I am more understanding and more like I could sit and listen to anyone talk

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just really into it you see that even you know you're interviewing me and I really want to

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_09]: hear about you that's how you connect it's the back and forth conversations that you're

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_09]: really listening to and you're really taking a part in well feel hurt and what I find interesting

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_07]: about that particular transaction hold on one second

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_07]: we're gonna cut that out brian what I find interesting about that particular transaction

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_07]: is because I was not all that present I was not looking for that deeper connection

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_07]: with people I saw so many of my relationships as one-sided like what am I getting in this

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_09]: maybe that's why nobody stepped up for you're like uh rick you were you were an ass

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you were an asshole that's why so maybe yeah hey I I was a bulldozer when I was a young

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I was very driven um very very focused on career and um I I was was somewhat intimidating

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_07]: and and it would be you know if if you're not with me get out of my way and that was just how

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I operated it's what I came from I was born in Chicago my dad's business was in Chicago

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_07]: it was a survival skill but the thing the thing I was going to say is now that I am the polar

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_07]: opposite of that especially in my interactions with friends family people that I meet

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I notice my friends are so taken back by how I interact with them so when I say

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I love you you mean a lot to me I appreciate you know our friendship I appreciate our history

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_07]: um I was thinking about you the other day and it made me smile you know things like that

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_07]: my some of my male friends specifically they look at me like what on earth who are you

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_09]: what have you become and I and I just laugh back to something that you know is coming to

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_09]: so I was so so sick and I had so many different ailments and my surgeons that I went to were

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_09]: the top of that hospital you know I needed like the top people yeah and they had never really

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_09]: done amputations before it was like a weird I kind of fell through the cracks and the place

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_09]: that I was recovering in never sent me a mentor and I really had to figure it all out like

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_09]: on my own there were no mentors however I researched when I got out of the hospital

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_09]: and um two different charities showed up for me one was adaptive adventures and I talked

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_09]: about it in the book and one was romp who you just you know interviewed Dave uh Krupa

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_09]: so range of motion project is romp and active adventures um adaptive adventures was my first

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_09]: segue into charity yeah and I would say so I met them maybe three months out of the hospital

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_09]: and I always felt semi-athletic I never really was a super sporty girl but I was like

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_09]: competent enough sure and they have me back skiing on regular skis like within two or three

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_09]: months swimming diving you know I just was able to do everything and that was the that was the

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_09]: deal breaker meaning that just broke through for me and I felt like a normal person again

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_09]: so I can't amplify enough about what the charities mean to me the two charities

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_09]: that give so much because otherwise I don't think I would know what my capabilities were

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_09]: they pushed me to know that um Dave who you talked to I don't know a few months ago he's

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_09]: climbing mountains yeah I wish I could do that but my right foot's holding me back

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_07]: but I probably could do some of it yeah I uh I've spoken to Dave uh recently and you know

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_07]: we've chatted about uh you know possibly doing some dedicated episodes from not not this year's

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_09]: but possibly next year um maybe you and I could go climbing I want to climb I want to go back to

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I went to Ecuador and I went to Guatemala with Range of Motion Project and they are so much more

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_09]: comprehensive than what I got in the top hospitals here yeah because they take mental

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_07]: health into you know yeah one of Dave's uh colleagues uh David Rodder um who I love yeah

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_07]: he's my yeah he's my prosthetist uh Dave he's amazing yeah he's such an incredibly kind guy

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_07]: so so charitable and giving you know of himself and um I do agree with you and I

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_07]: again want to echo something that you said engaging your you know yourself physically

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_07]: from a fitness standpoint I have found as an amputee is so incredibly it's it's healing

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_07]: it's very very empowering yeah I you know I will say I feel stronger now at you know 55 56

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_07]: um than I did in my 30s and yes me too I'm in better shape right yeah and I'm very proud of that

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_07]: and me too I'm sure there's a part of that where maybe I'm overcompensating a little bit

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: um you know trying to either prove something to myself or or other people but the by-product

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_07]: the residual of that is man I feel good and I feel clear yeah there's this confidence and

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_07]: it's it's almost like the the world and the possibilities within it are just endless to me

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: now and I can do anything I remember after like a few months just a few months of working with

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_09]: adaptive adventures and again I want to reiterate this I went on normal skis normal

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_09]: and I was only like an average skier you know I was very new but I managed to make those turns

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_09]: and do everything on a painful quarter of a foot yeah like I was turning and using the ankle

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_09]: and everything and so after I did it for a while I said who am I it is painful I proved

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_09]: I could do it I could now do maybe the adaptive skis or whatever but my son turned me and he

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_09]: was still little I think he was 10 years old at the time and he said mom you've managed to ski

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_09]: again bike again dance again whatever you need to do what what is it that you cannot do

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_09]: with this new situation I said I guess nothing and we just kind of

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_09]: wrapped hands and kept walking yeah no that's wonderful so yeah he brought to my attention

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_09]: nothing really slowed down for me yeah it's just me up to me how far I want to push myself

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_07]: and I push myself plenty good every day yeah no it's an incredible story I want to make

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_07]: sure everyone gets out there and checks out your book where is the best place to find it

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_09]: everybody pretty much ordered it online at Amazon it's aftershock there's so many

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_09]: aftershocks so it's either aftershock by Penny Fisher or reinventing myself one piece at a time

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_09]: but I would say Amazon's the first thing that people plug into but it's sold wherever books

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_09]: are sold okay but maybe not on the shelves so you'd have to order it anyway yeah no that's

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_07]: that's awesome I'm glad that that's out there if people want to learn more and engage your

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: story which is fascinating and so incredibly inspiring Penny I want to thank you for being

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_07]: here today this hour went very very quick unfortunately yeah I feel like we just I wish

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_07]: we have more time I do too I do too and such a pleasure to meet you please don't be a stranger

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_07]: and I will I wish you well here what's that one more time I'm from the Midwest

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_07]: yes are you are you affiliated with any charities like I um I have my you know honestly um I'm

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_07]: probably have my hands in too many at the moment um romp is definitely on my radar you know I

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: did some fundraising for them uh back in June um I did a uh I did you know the movement

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_07]: challenge I think I I think I did either 250 or 300 miles on my bike something like that

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_07]: that's amazing and raised some money there um I've done some dedicated events uh concerts

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_07]: fundraising for 50 legs um which is Steve Chamberlain's um ex pro wrestler uh his charity

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I've done some things with uh less leg more heart uh Robert Rodriguez limb kind um yeah I

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_09]: don't know about only know about romp and adaptive adventures yeah I I you know I I've

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_07]: been fortunate enough through the podcast to make a lot of really really beautiful connections

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_07]: and um I I always joke with people I say man I say if if I did win the lottery man it would

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_07]: be gone quick because I would just be I would literally be cutting checks all day to these

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_07]: people like that's the best kind of wealth isn't it it is and I get such a charge such a

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_07]: a incredibly positive vibration from helping people in this community and others um but

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_07]: specifically uh amputees and so much of what we do here to get these stories out there

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_07]: and to put light um in the right places um is is completely self-funded so um we're not out

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_07]: for profit we're just trying to uh give someone like yourself an opportunity to share

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_07]: uh with our growing audience um this beacon of hope and again you know thank you so much

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_07]: for being part of this that's going to be it for us my name is Rick Bonkowski

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_07]: this is the amped up to 11 podcast and I want to wish everyone health and happiness we will

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_07]: see you next time