Limb Preservation Foundation - Hope Beyond Limits 2025 - PART 2

[00:00:00] Welcome back to the Amped Up to 11 Podcast. We're diving into part two of our exclusive Spotlight Lounge series from the 2025 Limb Preservation Foundation Symposium, taped live from Golden, Colorado, where resilience meets innovation and stories of triumph take center stage. In this episode, we're featuring four extraordinary individuals who are redefining possibilities and breaking barriers. First up, meet Jenny Thomas, whose journey from a devastating motorcycle accident to a new life.

[00:00:30] to becoming an ambassador for Integrum showcases the power of determination and the advancements in the osseointegration technology. We also have Mike Boland, the charismatic host of We're Not Stumped, who turned personal challenges into a platform for empowerment, laughter and inspiring countless others in the limb loss community. Next, Lara Doderlein shares her inspiring path from early life challenges to becoming a Paralympic athlete, demonstrating

[00:00:59] that with grit and support dreams are within reach. Finally, Dr. Adil Akhtar, founder and CEO of Sionic discusses how cutting edge technology is revolutionizing prosthetics, making them more intuitive and affordable for amputees worldwide. This isn't just a podcast, it's a celebration of human spirit, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of progress. So get ready, the Amped Up to 11 Podcast continues right now.

[00:01:34] Hey everyone, we're here with Jenny Thomas, who hails from Montgomery, Alabama. Here we are in Colorado. So, Montgomery, Alabama, tell me about that place. I'm a long way from home right now. You certainly are. The weather is quite different in Alabama than it is in Colorado. For sure. It's good. Alabama's a little bit slower, a little bit warmer, but we like our hospitality down there.

[00:02:02] A little bit slower. I like that. I like the sound of that. A little bit slower. We're a little bit more laid back. I'm from Chicago and the Midwest definitely feels a lot different than the hustle and bustle of, let's say, like New York. Right. I go there and I think, what is wrong with these people? It's fun for a day or two, but I don't think I could live that fast-paced lifestyle every day of my life. Slow down. Right, right.

[00:02:27] You're killing me. So, you're what I refer to, you know, in a nutshell, because I meet so many amputees. You're a trauma survivor. I am. And you survived a very, very difficult situation, a motorcycle accident.

[00:02:49] And I don't know what the statistics are specifically on limb loss due to motorcycle accidents, but I'm going to speculate that it's pretty high. There's a pretty high number of us motorcycle wreck amputees out there. Some of them still ride. I don't want to ride anymore. Tragically, I lost my husband in the same wreck that destroyed my leg.

[00:03:16] And the things I saw that day, I miss riding a motorcycle, but after everything I saw, it's just not worth it to me to chance it again. Yeah. And, you know, losing a limb from, you know, that type of trauma is, it's incredibly devastating. Sure.

[00:03:34] And you have an added layer in that situation, that journey, that struggle, which was losing your life partner. And I guess where my mind sort of goes to in that equation is, do you work on one and not the other? Do you parse them out?

[00:04:01] Is there the healing of this and then the healing of that? And being a trauma survivor and going through that, I find when I talk to people in your particular category of amputation, there's such a huge mental rebuilding.

[00:04:21] We can talk about osteointegration, which we will, and all the cool stuff that goes into making you whole again physically. But I really, I really tend to press into, my gosh, Jeannie, like the emotional piece. Yeah. So I did not lose my leg the same day. Right. I broke my leg in all the places, multiple open fractures, but the surgeons decided to try and save my leg.

[00:04:51] Yeah. So I actually did three years of limb salvage surgeries. And I go back and forth on whether or not that was the right call. But I think that did give me time to grieve the loss of my husband, as well as go ahead and start making peace with losing my leg. Yeah. Because once, I mean, you don't really ever get over the loss of a partner.

[00:05:13] But having that experience and already losing the most important thing in my life, then getting rid of my leg wasn't a major loss at that point for me. It was going to be a gain. It was going to be kind of closing that chapter on the grief. Let's get rid of the pain. Let's get rid of the dysfunction. Let's move forward. Did I read this right? 23 surgeries? I've now had 24 surgeries on my leg.

[00:05:42] I'm no stranger to anesthesia. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty extraordinary. I look at what you have here. And of course, I'm fascinated. Yeah. Because I'm not an osteopatient. Yeah. Explain to me, like, how all this works. So instead of using one of these sockets, I just have this connected to this implant that's in my femur, actually. Right.

[00:06:11] And only takes a couple seconds to take it off and put it back on. And then it just tightens at the base there. And then we're on. We're up and ready to go. Wow. I don't have to deal with the sweat issues anymore. I don't have to put on liners. Being in Alabama. Yes. The sweat in Alabama is the worst. I used to sweat my leg off all the time. All the time. I don't have to add socks if I lose volume throughout the day. I put it on and go. It goes on the exact same way every single time.

[00:06:41] It's just part of you. It is. It's an extension of me. So the place my mind goes to, flooded with questions, in terms of the stability, it truly being an extension of you because you're connecting hardware to... Straight to the bone. Straight to the bone.

[00:07:03] If you could, in your mind, describe the differences between donning a traditional socket and then being connected through osteointegration, how would you describe that difference? I can feel so much more. Okay. So when I used a socket, I had a lot of soft tissue, which would make things unstable.

[00:07:27] But also having that soft tissue, any feeling, anything I step on, trying to get feedback from that. It's got to go through a shoe, through a prosthesis, through the socket, through the liner, through the socks, through the soft tissue before I even realize what I'm stepping on. Now, yeah, I have a shoe, but I'm immediately getting feedback directly to the bone. So the vibration that's created... Touching the shoe, I can feel that. Really? Because any little vibration... That's incredible. You can feel it straight back.

[00:07:56] So I can tell what I'm stepping on. I know when I go from carpet to tile to pavement to hardwood, you can sense the difference. It's really an incredible feeling. Yeah, that is. That's really remarkable. Because, you know, donning a traditional socket like I do, I am slowly building those muscle memories for touch through my limb. But boy, oh boy, it's a long process. Yeah, it is.

[00:08:25] I mean, you've got to take a lot of steps before your brain can catalog all the different... What you're feeling. Exactly. Where it would seem to me like this is just you're saying, okay, if you're tapping this, like, I know you're there. Yeah. You know? I can feel it. It's the slightest touch. My dog puts his paw on my shoe and I can feel it. It's incredible.

[00:08:47] So, you know, obviously I follow you and you're confident. Yeah. You're very confident. Oh, yeah. And when I sort of absorb your content, I think, this is... She's bold, man. She's fierce. She's not afraid to kind of put it out there.

[00:09:14] And, you know, for some people, you know, this is all very visually kind of like, okay, like, it's a little... It's different. There's a lot here. It's different. There's a lot here. But I love that confidence, that sort of joyful playfulness that you bring into social media. And I think it's the kind of messaging that needs to get out there.

[00:09:43] Well, here's the thing. I can't change it. Right. I can't grow another leg. No. So I'm going to embrace this. Yes. I'm going to have fun with it. I'm going to let everybody know that I'm proud of it. Absolutely. The world tried to take me out and I survived. So, heck yeah, I'm confident. Yeah. And I think we need more people like yourself sort of projecting that because it removes a lot of stigmas. Correct.

[00:10:11] About, you know, this situation we're in. Right. We don't have to hide. There's no reason to hide. And people will tell me to put it away. That's gross. I don't want to see that. Too bad. Too bad. If you have a problem with it, that's your problem. That's not. Exactly. That's a you problem. That's not a me problem.

[00:10:30] You know, sometimes when I see, because, I mean, we're all, anyone that's somebody in this community, you know, is putting themselves out there to a certain degree. And I see, you know, I read the comments. Yeah. And I think, isn't that like a little bit of jealousy though? Oh, totally.

[00:10:53] Like, it drives me crazy that this girl, you know, obviously an attractive woman, but at the same time, you know, what you've been through, I mean, it gives you license to say, I am fierce. I am independent. I am proud of my journey. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to project strength in this community. Yep.

[00:11:19] And we are to be seen and heard just like any underserved community out there. And why not? I mean, why not? We have just as much of a right to be here as anyone else. Yeah. And, you know, someone will say, well, then it gets into all this kind of weirdness with, you know, devotees and all this stuff. And I'm like, you know, there's natural evils in everything. There are.

[00:11:45] There's always weirdness and people that don't know how to control themselves. That occurs across the board. Right. It's not just in the amputee community. Not at all. You know, when I started the podcast and decided, okay, well, I'm going to kind of be someone in that orbit. And of course, I'm just like blown away by some of the DMs that I got. Oh, yeah.

[00:12:13] My DMs are a scary place. Scary place. I'm like, why are these, these people are so direct. I cannot imagine. I cannot imagine. Like, what is this all about? And I would, you know, like say things to my partner, Sarah, and I'd be like, what's this, this dude sent me today? Like, what is this all about? I've never, I mean, I'm like a middle-aged, very kind of average looking guy.

[00:12:42] And I'm thinking, what does this person see? Like, where are we going with this? Yeah. This is bizarre behavior. It's a weird world. And she's like, babe, you just got to understand these people cast a very big net. True. And they're just hoping somebody somewhere is going to bite. That's true. And I'm like, I'm just, you know, first of all, as a man.

[00:13:06] Second of all, you know, given my age group, it's just not the kind of attention that I am used to at all. Sure. It puts, it makes me very uncomfortable. But at the same time, it's the price we pay for the good that we do. Right. I tell people that all the time. For every negative comment, I've got at least 10 positive ones. Exactly. I'm always going to call out that negative behavior, though. Good for you.

[00:13:33] Those people who want to write those really inappropriate things, people are going to know your name. So if you want to do that, that's all right. I'll put you out there. And social media is so funny that way. The other thing I wanted to ask you was, if someone out there in the listening audience is, you know, in that pivot point between limb salvage and amputation, I mean, what advice would you give them?

[00:14:01] I actually had a conversation with someone not too long ago about this. If you want to go the salvage route and you have a surgeon that you're confident with, go for it. I would recommend setting a time limit to that. You can waste years and years and years of your life on salvage surgeries. And you can get in the mindset of, well, let me try this one more thing, this one more thing, one more thing.

[00:14:30] And then 10 years go by and you're not any further along. Well, I think the time limit piece is critical. Yeah. So I think looking back on my journey, everything happened kind of as it should. I feel like now things lined up as they were supposed to line up. Yep. But at the same time, I think if I had said, all right, I'm going to give it two good years and see where things stand at that point. And if I'm really not at a good point, then that'll be my time to pull the trigger and do it.

[00:14:59] I mean, I didn't go much longer than two years. I did three years. Yeah. But still, I think just having an end in sight helps, not just with planning, but kind of on the mental side as well. Because if you say I'm doing salvage, but you don't have an end in sight, you can get stuck in that cycle for a long time. For sure. And how has the Limb Preservation Foundation Symposium treated you thus far? It's been great this year.

[00:15:27] I actually came for the first time two years ago as a patient ambassador with Integrum. And I met Marcy and just kind of fell in love with the idea of a foundation that supports people through that surgical process, whether that is eventually saving the limb or having an amputation. The amount of resources that they try to provide for people is so helpful. And I really want to see this foundation grow, not just in this area, not just in the country, but really worldwide. It's a necessary thing.

[00:15:57] Yeah. And I'm proud that we're both part of that. Yeah. Especially with this kind of content. Yeah. You know. This is Jenny Thomas. Look her up online. She's incredibly inspirational. And I appreciate you being here. Thank you for your time. It was awesome. Pleasure. Cool. Thank you. We're good. Hey, everyone. We're here with Mike Boland. And I want to welcome you to the Amped Up to 11 podcast.

[00:16:25] And there's something that I want to do with Mike just to get our interview started. I've never had the opportunity to fist bump a hand amputee. Let's do it. I love it. You have to do that sometimes. You know, we're both amputees. So it's kind of how, you know, how we vibe, let's say. I've done a lot of research on you. I follow your podcast. And there's some things I want to mention. I have a list. I'm in trouble.

[00:16:55] You were in a movie at eight. You bowled 19 strikes in a row. Yeah. You survived cancer. Fracted in the corporate world. So here's my question. Are you trying to create the most extraordinary resume like ever created? That's a great question. I'll tell you what. I've just been very fortunate in life. You know, it all started with my parents and how they raised me.

[00:17:25] I was born without my right hand. And so their influence was so powerful for me. They raised me to think that anything was possible. And I pretty much believed them during my life. A lot of luck involved, though, too. That's wonderful. And to credit your, you know, your support system, because so often on my show anyway, we talk about the most critical piece in all of this. Someone will say or reach out to me. And I'm sure you have this experience with your listeners.

[00:17:53] Hey, I'm getting ready for surgery. Or, hey, I'm a new amputee. What's this going to be like? And my go-to is typically, well, what's your support system like? Because if you do have a good support system, you're probably going to be able to navigate this. And if you don't, it's time to start talking about how we're going to build that with you. Great answer. By the way, I follow your podcast as well. And that's a great answer.

[00:18:21] I think it almost takes a village to make sure whatever you're going through within the limb loss community, you're able to continue and succeed. And I was very fortunate from the earliest times in my life to really have that support system. And that included my brother and sister as I was growing up, all the friends. Hey, was I bullied? Sure. You know, a lot of people were bullied in elementary school and growing up that way. But, you know, I always say it this way. You know, my parents really gave me the tools to be able to navigate the bullies and to be able to almost offset them.

[00:18:51] And so for me personally, I don't have a lot of the stories where they affected me. I know a lot of people that grew up like me have other stories and they should be represented as well. But my personal story is one of I wouldn't want this. I wouldn't want to be anything different than what I am right now. Yeah. And being born that way, too. It's not like you had a choice. And do you feel like in your family space that that was sort of a we don't even need to deal with that.

[00:19:21] This is just who you are, Mike. And people are going to love you, hate you, whatever it is, whether you had your hand or not. But those some results are typically the same anyway. Yeah. So how do we gauge how that would have affected anything when we're born with a limb difference? And I mean, your journey is very relevant in this conversation because you're what I refer to as a lifer. You don't know anything else.

[00:19:50] I came to amputation later in life. Yes. So I sort of have that A-B comparison and my mind is always sort of recalibrating, recalculating. Like, OK, well, that went a little different than what I'm used to. Whereas you, on the other hand, this is me. Well, you got to remember with me, there was no other hand. So right there where we are. Of course, I'm kidding with that. You know, I got to throw in that little comedic spice. You got to have some fun.

[00:20:19] But the thing that I think is interesting is obviously there were things to navigate, you know, for my parents. Let's say going to a mall or going to a grocery store and I'm walking around and maybe not with them. And somebody 35, 40 years old, I'm five and they're, you know, staring at me, asking me questions. So, you know, those are the things you have to navigate when you're a little bit younger. Yeah. I've always been one of those people that if somebody has a question, I'd love to answer it. I don't mind. And again, I just I don't mind having one hand.

[00:20:48] I don't know how you guys walk around those two things, to be honest. I would say the two legged freaks out there now. Right. I'm normal. Not you. I love it. You know, given that most of the population is right handed and you're in business. So what's that immediate thing like that someone that has doesn't know you or hasn't met you yet and goes, hey, Mike, how many times does that happen? Oh, I was going to say I can count on one hand, but I can only count on one hand.

[00:21:17] It's happened so many times. But that I feel like I own that. Yeah, because I'm the one who knows in that situation that I don't have a right hand. And being in very professional environments, I always put my hand out like that. And me knowing that you were a right hand amputee when I saw you come in, I immediately went to my left hand. I appreciate that. But, you know, you think that is a way you can harness that because that's energy. Yeah.

[00:21:44] And when they realize that all that you you're just beaming with confidence, you're an accomplished guy. You had a lot of life experience. And when I researched you, I thought, oh, my gosh, this guy's got what a resume. Holy shit. Like there's a lot going on here. And I thought, well, I don't think this gets in the way of that, that confidence, that sort of vibration that you give off.

[00:22:12] So for someone to reach in and go, oh, and then you're just it's all good, man. That's basically what it is. Very well said. I'll do this. Like I said, I feel like I own it because they don't know that I have one hand. Let's all do this. And they'll look and go, oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, I don't worry about it. It's good. Let's go. You know, what's the presentation like? Let's go. Exactly. Let's have some fun. Exactly. And it really just makes them go, OK, it is OK. And the temperature suddenly goes down. Yeah. And then it's business as usual.

[00:22:41] And to me, that's the ultimate compliment. Let's get on with business. Let's talk about this. Do you feel because I'm, you know, I'm a corporate climber. I run a business in Indianapolis. And do you find that your limb difference from a sales and marketing perspective? Because so often I train salespeople. Like, what are you leaving them with?

[00:23:10] What are they going to remember about you? Do you feel like this gives you an advantage? I think it does. But I was more always on the client side. So, yeah, I wasn't on the sales and marketing side. Because I would think if I met you and I didn't know anything about amputees, I didn't know about limb differences. I'd never been exposed to it. Oh, my gosh, I'd remember you. Yeah. I'd be like, I remember him. He didn't have a right hand. And when you call, you know, you do that callback. Yeah. Yeah. This is lefty.

[00:23:40] Right. Oh, I remember lefty. Again, with the humor, being able to harness that energy, use it for a strategic advantage, and being able to let everyone know, hey, I'm good with this. I'm relatable. You want to know me. I'm the kind of person you want in your orbit. I think that's the lesson that I take away from it.

[00:24:07] Given that you do stand up, your podcast host, I mean, you've been on the professional stage in many regards. I mean, where do you feel like you feel most comfortable in the spotlight, so to speak? I'm starting to feel more comfortable as a speaker than a comedian, and I'll tell you why. Okay. You can use comedy in your speaking, but you can't speak in your comedy because people are there to laugh.

[00:24:31] But when you're speaking, you can diffuse the audience or get them rejuvenated by throwing in a couple jabs here and there. And I think you also have an opportunity to tell your personal story and to actually uplift people through speaking, as opposed to comedy. Comedy is more of, I mean, you can get a message of uplifting from comedy, but speaking to me is where it's at for me in the future, I think. Yeah. I think that's wonderful. And let's talk about your cancer diagnosis.

[00:25:00] Give me some, through your lens, what was that like? Yeah. I'll try to stay composed. Hardest day of my life. Coming home from, we have a cabin up in northern Arizona, 4th of July weekend, 2016. It was July 8th, it was July 6th, I still remember the day. I had an itch on my neck. I had a lump in my neck. Yeah. I told my wife, and she goes, you better get that checked out. What was the size of it?

[00:25:30] By the time they got it out, it was the size of a golf ball. Really? And I didn't even know. And when you first noticed it, was it much smaller than that? It's just that it didn't protrude really from the neck. It was more going inside. Oh, it was more embedded, kind of. Okay. And I forgot, you know, you better get that checked out. I forget. And then I was at a vendor dinner. I turned around, and oh, my neck. I'm like, wow. So that started my process of going down. So it was changing your range of motion. Yeah. Wow.

[00:25:59] And then you thought, uh-oh, it's time. Yeah. I better get this checked out, and I did. And of course, you're always hoping for the best through that. But it came back as cancer. And I'm very fortunate, obviously. I'm here. I'm still able to speak. Because it was a nine-hour surgery. They were concerned about my vocal cords and my salivary glands, which did get affected. I do have problem swallowing to this day. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, a lot of people have gone through cancer. It's a hard thing for all of us to go through.

[00:26:28] Well, it's like anything else. It's, you know, a lot of people have experienced amputation. But it doesn't change the significance and the impact that it has on one's life. Because so much that we know as sustainability, we all, I don't know, I think at some point, we all think we're going to be around forever. Yeah.

[00:26:53] And certainly there's a lot of people that struggle with the idea of mortality. But when cancer arrives, oh boy, oh boy. It's kind of like, wow, this is a serious conversation. And this could be the end of me. And I have to weigh and consider how that's going to affect my loved ones. Have I done everything I wanted to do?

[00:27:23] Is my legacy in the place that I want it to be? And I would always, you know, I was sick for four years and I would always go to this place of, okay, I've had a good life. I've experienced a lot of things. I'm definitely not done.

[00:27:46] But then there was that overriding concern of, but what am I leaving behind? And when you pressed into that, I mean, where did that thought process take you? It took me where I'm at right now. Yeah. Excuse me. I, you know, again, I get a little emotional, but that caused me, you just took me back with a lot of what you were talking about. I left the organization I was at for 30 years because I wasn't sure what my legacy was going to be.

[00:28:16] And I'll say it this way. Throughout my life, I think I passively represented the limb loss community as well as I could. But again, it was more passive. I wanted to be more active. So that's why I started to do the things I do, including the comedy. And even with the cancer, I mean, sometimes you get material out of anything. People go, how did you not know there was a tumor the size of a golf ball in your throat? It was like, I don't know. I've never eaten a golf ball.

[00:28:43] It might be great with salt and a little paprika, but I've never eaten a golf ball. So you can find some positives in anything. And the biggest positive is I'm still here. And as you know. Yeah. And I feel like so often once we've gone through what I always like to refer to as the beautiful struggle, we come out on the other side of that in a more enlightened space. And things sort of hit differently now.

[00:29:13] Human interactions hit differently. Being part of community hits differently. How did that come about? How did you start the We're Not Stumped podcast? Well, I just decided that I wanted to tell other stories and sometimes even my own. And we started within like a month of each other. Oh, did we? Yes. I'm not even aware of that. Yeah. It's very interesting. So I did some research. Because I saw your podcast early on and I thought, well, this guy's been around for a long time.

[00:29:43] And I think I even Googled like, you know, like top podcast. You came up like immediately. Same with yours. That's why I love yours so much. And when you talk about experiences, there's something that came to my mind. Getting to meet you in person was so important to me being here today. Oh, that's awesome. Because I knew I was going to meet you in person. That's awesome. Thank you. Great experience for me. And everything you're doing is fantastic. And you have a fantastic podcast. Oh, I appreciate that. And for me, it was very self-indulgent, right?

[00:30:09] I'm like, I want to be able to talk to like some of these like cool amputees and stuff. Like for me, it was more, this is my secret way of like getting to them, having conversations with them. And what I found out was our community needs this. Yes. They need this connection point. There's not enough connective tissue between let's call them the rock stars and the rest of us.

[00:30:39] And I think, well, where do those connections get made? And these are just people. That's what you find out. And maybe on your show, you think, well, these are just people. And I want the general population of the amputee limb difference community to say, this is so relatable. They have bad days too.

[00:31:04] They get, you know, their skin breaks down or their struggle with their prosthetic. What you bring to this space is so important. And the fact that you do so much, I can't boast a list. You got to remember, luck played a part in somebody. Like being a part in a movie when I was eight years old, they just needed somebody with one hand. And I raised, well, I guess I raised my hand. One of them. I don't know what side.

[00:31:32] But it was just luck and, you know, opportunity. For any of you old school people, you know, like me and Mike here, you know, Billy Jack was a big deal in film. And the eight-year-old Mike was, you know, in a Billy Jack movie. Yeah. And when I was growing up, Billy Jack is badass. Oh, yeah. And everyone wanted to be Billy Jack. This was before I sort of discovered like Bruce Lee and all that stuff.

[00:32:02] But Billy Jack was like the dude. And, yeah, what a great, you know, what a great opportunity. What a great little, I don't know, sort of flashback moment for you to have, you know, in your life experience. To say, oh, yeah, that was me. And I'll tell you what, he was a very nice person. Really? In person. And, yeah, it was fun. It was fun being in that movie. That's incredible.

[00:32:28] And, you know, what do you hope to achieve here today at the Limb Preservation Foundation Symposium? I want to connect with people. I just enjoy getting to know people, like I said, like yourself, others here. I've already met other people here. And even the vendors. I love talking to see what they have. Everything has changed so much since I wore prosthetics in the late 70s. And it's just great to see the advancements of what's available to everyone. And just be part of this great community.

[00:32:58] Yeah, I agree with you. Everyone, this is Mike Bolin. Please check out the We're Not Stumped podcast. Look him up on YouTube. He's got some great clips, great content. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Hey, everyone. We're here with Lyra Doterline, Team USA Paralympian and multi-sport adaptive athlete. So nice to see you, Lyra. Thanks for being here.

[00:33:28] You have an incredible story. And when I think about the decision that you made at 14 for a double amputation, I think what I had read was you had chosen that amputation to gain more mobility, a better quality of life. So for a lot of people out there, that probably doesn't compute.

[00:33:54] Like how does someone choose double amputation to get more mobility? So explain that to us. I was born with a disability in both my legs. Heavily impacted the way I got around for the first several years of my life through my teenage years. I was luckily able to use orthotics and forearm crutches to get around.

[00:34:16] But I went through several surgeries to try to, quote unquote, fix the way I walked, make it a little easier, more standard. But over time, I had a few complications through surgeries that were somewhat unexpected. And my doctors one day told me flat out, you might be in a wheelchair at some point and you might not get out of it.

[00:34:39] And as a teenager who was very active, I wasn't quite in the world of adaptive sports yet before my amputations. But even then, I was a kid who loved movement. And the idea that I couldn't have that in the future was terrifying. More terrifying than double amputation, at least at the time. And how did your parents react when that conversation started? Were they both on board? Was one opposing, one for it?

[00:35:08] How did that conversation go? At the time, you're 14 and your parents are your adopted parents. And we'll talk about that a little bit. But love you very much and want what's best for you. So how did that conversation go? It was very timid for them. They were scared for good reason. It was a very big decision.

[00:35:37] At the end of the day, they told me that it was up to me. Although I think I went through five-second opinions. Probably a year of research to understand the lengths of what I could be going through. There were a lot of uncertainties. Just with the condition that I have, arthrogryposis, there were a lot of unknowns of the capabilities that I could have post-amputation.

[00:36:02] So at the end of the day, they kind of decided to trust my word on it. My mom was very supportive. I think she was really scared but did a good job at hiding it. My dad, on the other hand, was very against it. He was like, no way.

[00:36:23] He was very scared that I would not gain the independence that I was hoping for, which is very valid. I don't think at the time I fully grasped that fear. All I could think about was having more independence, more mobility. Cool new robot legs. I mean, that was on my mind for sure. I don't think it was until the day of my surgery that I started to grasp the intensity of the situation.

[00:36:53] But yeah, at the end of the day, they just backed me up on it, made sure I was as informed as possible. I was with Shriners at the time for my orthotics. But when we went through our research, we realized I might have needed a little more support. So that's when we discovered Hanger Clinic, which they specialize both in orthotics and prosthetics. So before my amputations even happened, I was able to meet with somebody.

[00:37:22] And they walked me through the possibilities and what would happen. And post-surgery, I was able to work with the same clinician. And I think it made a really big difference for me. Just because she was probably the only person who was able to see the way that I walked before and the way I walked after. And that kind of care meant a lot for me. I think it meant a lot for my parents as well.

[00:37:44] I think seeing the way that I would be cared for before it even happened made a really big difference. I think it creates a comfort zone. I think it created a lot of comfort for them. Gave them a little more hope than I think they initially had. Those outcomes probably seem a lot more real when someone says, hey, this is our plan. This is what we're going to do moving forward.

[00:38:09] Talk to me about what you're donning today as far as these pieces of hardware here. Is this the everyday legs? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So I have here two microprocessor knees. Okay. My amputations were through the knee. But, of course, I don't have a full knee, so I'm considered above the knee. I use primarily auto-bock products, but through New Year Clinic. I have the, I believe, the C4 prosthetic microprocessor knee.

[00:38:38] And then my sockets are just suction valve systems. Suction valve, okay. I do live in San Diego, so I frequent the beach and get sand stuck in them all the time. Yeah. Besides that, they are very sturdy. I've been using these for maybe five years now. Okay. I really only got into walking with them comfortably, though, after I went to what was called a BACA boot camp through Hanger Clinic. Oh, wow.

[00:39:06] BACA is short for bilateral above-knee amputee camp. So, essentially, anybody who has double above-knee amputations went to this camp. And it was a boot camp training us to learn how to walk in our prosthetics. And I think I had these C-legs for five months, probably. And the only time I was okay using them was in therapy. And as soon as I went to camp, I made a few friends. And they said, well, you need to get your butt off that chair and start walking.

[00:39:36] Yeah. So, I snapped out of the fear really quick, actually. But, yeah. Because you have to trust the equipment. You do. Yes. And that's a hard part. It is very scary. It's a mental bridge that we all cross when we bear weight for the first time. And as a single-leg amputee, you know, you'd think, well, you've got the good leg. You know, how hard could it be? Yeah. It's just as terrifying. Yeah. It really is.

[00:40:04] So, when I look at someone like yourself and I think, well, that's everything that you're trusting in that regard, which is very, very difficult to do. And a lot of people don't understand, right? What was, what do you think was the moment, because obviously you're an active kid. Now you're becoming more active. What was the moment where you thought, I think I could compete. I think I could get into competitive spaces in sport as an amputee. Yeah. When did that happen?

[00:40:33] This happened very quickly after I became an amputee. I think three months post-surgery. I was in the clinic for the very first time getting fit for my first sockets, for my first prosthetics. And there happened to be a clinician in the office at the time, locally in Arizona where I was based at the time. And he was a single above me amputee. He happened to play sled hockey.

[00:41:00] I was a kid who had no idea that people played ice sports, much less hockey in Arizona. So the idea was kind of funny to me, a little ironic. But he came up to me while I was getting fit one day and said, hey, you should come try sled hockey. Just give it a try. We have an adult team here, but we're willing to work with you. I was 14 years old at the time, so definitely the youngest person on the ice.

[00:41:29] A week later, I went on the ice with the team, and a few of the guys showed me the ropes a little bit. I was toppling over in the sled as soon as I got on the ice. But as soon as I started moving, it was a new experience for me that opened the world of sports for me. I think just having the opportunity to move with my upper body for the first time and not have to rely on my legs.

[00:41:55] I really felt like these chains just tore off me. Yeah, I was going to say, because you participate in a lot of other sports. I do. I mean, you're multifaceted. There's so many things that you do in the adaptive space. Do you feel like things like movement, sport, are those the catalyst for your freedom? Oh, 100%. Because so many people look at our amputations and say, well, gosh, that's got to be limiting.

[00:42:24] I bet there's a lot you can't do. And then you say, well, hold on. Here's all the things I do that have liberated me to feel like there's nothing I can't do. So gravitating towards, you know, sport in the way that you have, I would think, has been a huge part of your independence. Would you agree with that? It's been a huge part. I mean, growing up, I was forced to adapt to the world around me.

[00:42:55] And it taught me that there are a lot of things that people thought I couldn't do that, in fact, I could do just a little differently. And when I got into adaptive sports, it really was a mental shift for me. As a kid who was being told what my limits were, I realized that those limits weren't real. And it started to make me be able to look around at the people who were doing the things that maybe were a Paralympic gold medalist in sled hockey.

[00:43:23] And I was like, that's a superhuman right there. Nobody with two legs could do that. So it definitely was a mental shift for me. And I feel like sports was a catalyst for me in understanding that mobility is a huge part of my life. Not just physically, but even mentally. Staying active and networking with other people. Your emotional health has improved when we're doing the things that we love.

[00:43:48] And we don't feel held back by something that might be interpreted as a limitation by someone else in the world. When we say, hey, I'm good. I'm okay. Exactly, yeah. I'm doing what I love. And, you know, I think about your story specifically when we're talking about, you know, very, very humble beginnings.

[00:44:39] Lifetimes already as a young person. Okay. Is there ever a moment where you think, how did I get here? Like, how did all of this? Every day. And I want to ask you this question. So if you were to meet someone, very young person, in crutches, okay, in braces, experiencing those limitations as a very young person, what's the thing you would whisper in their ear?

[00:45:08] You know, for someone younger, I think the best thing I would try to encourage is just to be a sponge for information. Yeah. Keep your eyes open. Be open to every opportunity that's handed to you because there's always a slight chance that it could change your life. Or it couldn't. And you just learn something new. And you're like, hey, this isn't quite for me. Or you fall in love with it. Exactly. Or you meet somebody new. There's a lot of different opportunities that I think we miss because we pass it up.

[00:45:37] And I think, you know, being open to trying something once at least is really important, especially for younger people. And how do you feel about, you know, the pressures of, you know, being young and having a limb difference? You know, so much of the world now is built around things like social media.

[00:46:00] They're built around, you know, there's a lot of static, I call it, out there that tends to help sort of cause us to lose focus on things. I always think of my, you know, I became an amputee later in life, but I think back to when I was your age and how much pressure I felt to sort of fit in. And I did not have a limb difference. So then I think about someone like yourself, and I do meet a lot of young people.

[00:46:27] And I have a curiosity about, well, what's that experience like for you? I think as young people with the access to technology that we have these days, it can be really easy to look at other people and compare ourselves. Yeah. And that's a really dangerous thing for a kid because we're still learning who we are.

[00:46:50] I feel like the biggest thing I've learned in that facet of life is trying to dial in on my present self more than anything. You know, I think there's a lot of things. Like I said, being a sponge can be really helpful. You know, picking and choosing what works for you, but a lot of things that work for someone else won't work for me. So I think, you know, for me, it's always just been trying to stay true to what works for me and what doesn't.

[00:47:17] Really work around the people who actually care about me and who want the best for me is really important. And just staying present with my goals day by day, you know. You don't have – I have never tried to look super far into the future. I think having long-term plans is amazing, but I think also as a younger kid, having those little goals to reach for is really important too. And at least for me, it's been a big help.

[00:47:45] There's so many possibilities, right, when we're at this age, the age that you're at. You look at the world as this very, very huge spectrum of opportunities. And I think you're right. Very wise words. Be open. Listen. Be a sponge. Something might turn into something that you had never imagined, right?

[00:48:07] If you try a new sport or new activity or get involved with some form of movement or community that's going to make good things happen in the world, you know. But you're an incredible inspiration. I so appreciate your story and what you bring to this space. That's Lyra Doderlein. Thank you so much for being here. Of course. Thank you. Hey, everyone.

[00:48:33] We are coming to you from the 2025 Limb Preservation Foundation Symposium. We are lucky enough to have with us Mr. Dr. Adil Ektar. Good to meet you, sir. Good to meet you, too. Right on cue. He knows what to do. You can shake my real hand, too. He's done this before.

[00:48:56] So when I was doing my research on you, and I want to talk about Shark Tank because that just blew off the page for me. when I was doing my research for you, I have to say I'm jealous because I'm not an academic. I definitely was always a creative. So, you know, put me in creative writing, put me in art class. Like I said, I've been a musician my whole life.

[00:49:26] So when I see someone's resume, and let me just walk you through it, and I'm probably missing things. Degrees in biology, computer science, electrical engineering, and neuroscience. I mean, is this like collecting superpowers for building bionic limbs? Like is this,

[00:49:53] you must have loved school. I mean, you must have loved it. My wife worried that I was going to be in school forever. Like I'd be the perpetual student. No, you know, it was, so I've wanted to build these my whole life, right? So ever since I was seven, I wanted to build prosthetics in particular. And so it was really a matter of what was the best way to do that, right? And so it's kind of like a circuitous path. Like the original plan was I was

[00:50:18] going to become a medical doctor working with people with limb differences that as their physician, right? Sure. And original, original plan was as a neurosurgeon doing this, these kind of like bionic surgeries and things like that. But then it was my, in undergrad, I took a computer science class and I loved it. I loved engineering. I loved everything about like building my own programs and coding. And I was like, if I become a straight up MD, I don't get to do any of that cool stuff.

[00:50:44] And so how can I merge those two things together? And, you know, bionics was kind of like an emerging, at least with bionic prosthetic limbs in particular, was an emerging field. Shirley Rine Ability Lab at the time was the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, RIC. They were just coming up with some of like the craziest things there where they were doing like surgeries that could help like robotic limbs communicate better with the body. And I was like, okay, so instead of just biology

[00:51:11] and going into pre-med, let's get some engineering in there. So that's where the computer science and electrical engineering came in. And then neuroscience just seemed like the best fit for doing my PhD in particular. But the thing is, is that regardless of whatever field I was doing, the work was always the same. It was always towards bionic limb. So it didn't really matter if it was going to be in like mechanical engineering or electrical engineering or neuroscience or whatever field. It was all geared towards doing this. And in that same vein, that's how the startup came about too. It was like,

[00:51:41] how could we make the most impact? It's not necessarily through academia, it's through a company. Right. Yeah. And I think the thing that impressed me most about you was, okay, here's a guy, super sharp guy, really, I mean, just, you know, high level intelligence to be able to earn all these degrees. But then what appeared to me through my lens was, he's got a tremendous amount of like

[00:52:05] business savvy. Like this is not just, I mean, pardon the phrase, but this isn't just some nerd. Like, no, this guy is really has a broad skill set. Because when I saw you on Shark Tank, I thought, man, he's throwing punches with these people. It was not, it was not. Now, I'm sure before you went on Shark Tank, you watched a few episodes. Oh, yeah, we did our homework.

[00:52:31] Exactly. You don't seem like someone who would not be well prepared. Given your ability to test well and earn degrees, right? People like that do not just like wing it. No, they study. They know the material. So I'm imagining you, right? You're getting ready for this thing and you're watching episodes and you're probably doing independent research on every single panelist and what are

[00:52:57] they about? Oh, absolutely. Predictability is about what questions are they going to ask me and all this stuff. And you get on this show and I'm thinking, they cannot throw him a curveball. Like he is on it, right? So I will say that it wasn't that much different than a typical pitch to investors. Okay. And I had done that so many times at that point. Yeah. It was the same thing.

[00:53:24] Yeah. So it didn't feel too much different. Yeah. Yeah. You were just able to kind of go and just be like, hey, it's just another pitch, man. Let's go. Where are we going after this? I was so impressed with it. Thank you. I really was. And, um, you know, I hope that those, uh, that experience and whatever was created in that deal, let's call it, um, has, um, played out well

[00:53:51] for you. And hopefully it's something that, you know, uh, you felt like was worth it. And I mean, from, from one level, just educating the public too, about like, this is, this is out there. Like, you know, this technology isn't like people thought that this was like, you know, unreal or something like that. No, it exists. Right. And, um, I think that alone, um, and just educating people on like prosthetists. I remember after, um, after coming on Shark Tank, all of

[00:54:20] prosthetists reached out to me and they were like, thank you for like making our feet, like mentioning our field because no one really knows what we do. And cause I was just like, oh yeah, we've, we sell our hands to prosthetists. They're, they're the ones who, who purchased them. Funny you say that because when I use that word to just lay people, they look at me like, did you just say prostitute? Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. And I'm like, no, I did not go to my

[00:54:47] prostitute. I don't have one. However, I do have a prosthetist and he helps me with this. His name's David Rotter. He's in Illinois. You can look him up. He's a real person. But it's funny that you say that because very often that word does not get used enough. And I don't know where the general public thinks we get all of this stuff, right? Oh, absolutely. And when I look at what

[00:55:16] you're holding there, I, I just, I am so, so fascinated, encouraged, inspired to say, well, here we are, we're in the future. The cool stuff is happening right now. Indeed. I don't have to go to the movies to see it. It's right in front of me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. So talk to us about your little friend. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got, I'm holding the ability hand right here, right? And so this is a, what we call a fully multi-articulated hand. So all five fingers

[00:55:45] can flex and extend and the thumb can rotate as well too. So this is a particular grip we call like a power key switch grip. So this is what I shook your hand with earlier too, right? So this was this grip. So we can electrically actuate the thumb too and it can move out. So we can do like a pinch, for example. If we can slow the speed down too, so I can do a very precise pinch. Oh, wow. If you're at a rock concert, you know, you can rock on. That's right. Let's do it. And then to see all the fingers in

[00:56:13] motion, right? Here's, here's a finger wave, right? So you can see all the fingers moving there and do a nice chill finger wave if you wanted to as well, right? So this is used for as both as a prosthesis and on robots as well too. It's the same hand that goes on humans that goes on robots. Google is using it with their latest AI Gemini 2.0 to have like voice commands to control a robot who's using our hands to do tasks around the home. NASA is using it on their humanoid astronaut robot they eventually want to send it to

[00:56:43] space. Mercedes is building cars with it on a humanoid robot. So it's just, but the thing is, if you're building robots to do human tasks, it makes sense that you use the thing that we optimize for humans to do those same human tasks. And so we have over 200 patients using it across the world and as well as then 50 robotics companies. And it's the first hand to give users touch feedback. So if you hold the bottom of this, do you feel the vibration coming through? So there's six touch sensors that we have on each of

[00:57:09] the fingers that we can place on there. So you get that fine touch. Exactly. So you can, you know when you're touching an object, when you're letting go and how hard you're touching. That is incredible. As well. It's water resistant up to the wrist. You can wash it like you would in a natural, like a natural hand. So I'm assuming based on what I know about prosthetics. So if, if let's say I'm a, you know, I'm a hand amputee, let's say I'm below my wrist, I'm donning a traditional socket and then there's a

[00:57:38] special connection point between your device and what my prosthesis has created. Exactly. Which is the, quick disconnect here, right? Got it. So this is industrial standard. Every bionic hand has this connector. Okay. And then the clinician, the prosthetist will use this lamination ring and then all the electronic components and build it out into the socket. Wow. It's amazing. Let me, let me grab this because we have a clear version of the hand that allows you to kind of see

[00:58:07] all of that in particular. So this, this is the clear version of the hand here, right? So you can see all the circuitry, all the touch sensors and everything. Wow. But we also made a clear version of the socket. So here's a socket that goes with the clear hand. This, we made for one of our employees. So we have three employees who use our hand in house. Okay. And so this is for Dale. He's one of our- So they're, they're amputated. Oh, yeah. So he was born actually. So he's born without his hand. Got it.

[00:58:36] So right below his elbow. Yep. And so he's missing his right hand. And so he'll put his residual limb in here. These are the two muscle sensors that'll pick up his muscle activity. Yep. And then that'll just plug into the end of it. We've got our battery pack in here. We've got the vibration motor for the touch feedback in here too. And then the muscle sensors for detecting. It's incredible. And it's so, I really appreciate this, uh, this particular piece because it really tells you, you know, what's going on.

[00:59:01] Yeah. Um, you know, below the surface. Yeah. All packed into the small space. Right. Well, it's almost like when you consider human anatomy. Right. As a science. And most people don't really understand what's below the skin. And when they do find out, you think, Oh my gosh, this is, look at all of these things. Yep. These, these, you know, capillaries, the capillaries and the bone and the ligaments and

[00:59:28] this and that. And then you, you see it in robotic form and you're like, totally makes sense. Right. You got to make all these things happen. You know, very much appreciate this format because it gives you a much better sense of what's going on. Exactly. I mean, and here I'll, I'll, I'll plug it into this because, um, that really completes the picture. Cause when we, when we turn this guy on, so we, we made this, uh, particularly, um, for the consumer electronics show. Um, uh, and so Dale,

[00:59:56] he wore it to that. But the thing is, is that these muscle sensors, um, when they, when they activate, it lights up the, um, the hand too. So you can actually, are we getting this? Yes. So I, uh, depending on which sensor you activate, it'll, it'll light up the lights on here. So people get a visual representation then of like, this is your, these are your muscles firing to actually make this hand open and close. But then when I touch the fingers, like you can actually

[01:00:22] see the lights going in the opposite direction, right? Too. So there's the thumb over on that side, index finger, middle finger, ring finger, et cetera. Exactly. And they can then see that, oh, when you're touching something, you're actually getting that, that feedback back from the hand to the body. Now, as far as, um, you know, like with patient trials and stuff, you know, when you're getting feedback from the people that are, you know, donning these pieces, you know,

[01:00:49] how much does their experience affect whatever tweaks or, you know, whatever improvements you feel like you need to make? What's that process like when you're experimenting and trying to figure out, okay, this worked, this didn't work so much. Yeah. I mean, so the fortunate thing is by having three employees full-time with us, we use our hand whenever we have a new feature, they are the

[01:01:13] first to test it out and the first to tell us how terrible it is. Right. Which is great because then we can really make something that, that actually makes a difference. Right. As opposed to just frivolous things that they're just kind of like, yeah, I would never use this. Right. And I would think, you know, being a, you know, a medical person and you, you have a vision as to what you're trying

[01:01:36] to create, what you're trying to supplement and replace, but you're not an amputee. So there's a lot of little bridges in the communication that need to be built so that you have a really, really crystal clear understanding of, okay, I get it. Explain that to me so I can do something,

[01:02:02] you know, um, with the technology to respond to that need. Absolutely. And the fact that you have, uh, an obvious sense of humor about it and you're not like, you know, David Rotter, you know, kicked us in the teeth and, you know, he really pushed us, you know, you're willing to say we appreciate it. Oh yeah. 100%. We need that. Exactly. Yeah. Cause, cause you know, we can, you know,

[01:02:28] turn on a robotic hand and be like, Ooh, ah, but does it work? Exactly. Can it be used in real life? Is there something we can, we can do with it? That's going to completely change the quality of life of someone once they've gotten beyond the healing and dealing with the trauma or whatever they went through to get to this stage. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I, I think having that sort of grace

[01:02:53] about it is really important, you know, were your parents like really tough on you as far as like academics? Yeah, I would say so me, both me and my two older brothers. And is that, is that a component of your, your cultural background? Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. Both my, my older brother and I, we were both valedictorians of our, of high school. Of course. And then, uh, and then my, uh, my oldest brother ended up studying nuclear engineering at the university of Illinois. My older brother got a PhD

[01:03:20] from Stanford in like business marketing or something. And then like, uh, and now he works at Netflix and then, then there's me. Did you ever bring home a C? A C? No, no. Um, what would have happened if you had? It wouldn't have been good. Let's fast forward 10 years. 10 years from now you're saying? Okay. Yeah. What's it going to be like? What's going to happen? Yeah. What is this whole space going to

[01:03:46] feel like? So I think there's going to be a much more seamless connection between the human body and robotics. Um, and, uh, a lot of you're seeing some of like the, as at this conference, even some of like the underpinnings of what that's going to look like. Um, and I think two of the biggest things that we're going to see are osteointegration. I think that's going to be like a lot more prevalent. Yep. Um, so the titanium implants that go in the bone and then you can anchor the prosthesis

[01:04:10] directly to your bones, um, as well as, um, neural integration. So like sensors that instead of having like the muscle sensors on the outside of your body, they'd be implanted directly inside your body. And there's other, um, so one of the other keynotes here at Connor Glass, I think he's speaking right now. We interviewed him. Oh yeah, exactly. You interviewed him earlier. Um, he's doing implanted muscle electrodes and we've been working with groups who are doing implanted nerve electrodes,

[01:04:35] brain implants as well too, all to get this more seamless. Sounds like a massive, um, switch sort of evolution into just integration. Yep. Absolutely. All of these, all of these technologies will converge and work in concert with each other and to have, you know, really, really incredibly intelligent minds in various spaces. Obviously you being one of those people and all of that coming

[01:05:04] together. And once the medical communities and the tech people and hopefully the insurance companies and everybody else says, okay, this is the initiative. We've got to make this possible. Yep. And I, I tend to agree with you. Um, but I do worry sometimes when we talk about this type, this next level tech,

[01:05:29] the affordability factor. Sure. Yep. And making sure that, um, the medical necessity sort of, you know, excuse that a lot of people in the insurance business use, some of that broadens and it can make this type of technology accessible to anyone, not just the lucky few. Absolutely. And,

[01:05:53] and accessibility for psionic in particular, it's, it's been in our blood, right? Is it in the, the initial like, like our whole mission is to provide the most advanced bionics and make it more accessible than ever. And for us from the get go, when we started talking with like hundreds of potential users and clinicians, the clinicians were all saying that if you can get something covered under Medicare, Dave Rotter in particular, he was like, if you can get it covered under Medicare

[01:06:18] under the standard codes, then you've got something special. Right. And so that was our design constraint from the beginning. So whereas a lot of other, other research groups or, or companies, whatever, who's working on these devices, they might take the approach of like, let's build the most advanced thing possible by throwing as much money as possible. Then, then you get these devices that are technically very impressive, but will never work commercially because they're

[01:06:47] way, way too expensive. But if you take the approach from the beginning of like, we have to make something that's more advanced, but you also have to make it accessible and affordable. It forces you to think in a different way. Right. So we, we leverage things like 3d printing and like low cost silicone and rubber in ways that weren't really being done in the space. And by doing that, we were able to make something that was like super resistant to impacts, but then also was covered by

[01:07:13] Medicare. Right. Oh, for sure. And driving down that, you know, those hard costs of goods is a critical piece in affordability because once people start, you know, granting dollars for that, especially in the insurance space, they want to know that, okay, did you guys overspend on this? Because there's got to be somewhere where you can trim the fat, so to speak. And when you're motivated from the inception of it,

[01:07:40] you're like, we've had that covered since we started. Exactly. Yep. We've been on that train since the beginning, always thinking about affordability. You know, how do we narrow that path in terms of production? You know, how are we going to mass produce these? And that has to be in your purview, which again, I think is part of your genius in the business sense, right? Stepping outside of the

[01:08:04] medical and the scientific to say, we're kind of running a business too here. Yeah. Yeah. Which is very important. Sionic, how do people follow, donate, invest? Give us, give us some guidance there. Talk to the audience. Yeah, absolutely. So because we're all about accessibility, and even though we got covered under Medicare, that expanded access from like 10% of patients who could afford to 75%,

[01:08:29] there's still 25% who are underinsured, like on Medicaid or not insured at all, and 80% of people in developing nations who can't afford a buy on a can. So we started an initiative in partnership with the Range of Motion Project there, and called the Ability Fund, where, you know, an arm and a leg can cost, like $100,000 to $150,000 when you include all the clinical services as well as like the devices

[01:08:53] themselves. So for 25K, that's every 25K that's donated, completely covers all the costs of a hand and all the clinical services. Okay. And it donates a leg to Guatemala or Ecuador as well. Oh, that's awesome. It covers those clinical services. That's awesome. It covers all the leg for 25K, which is just nuts. Yes. And so you can go to www.ability.fund, just ability.fund. It'll take you directly to that region. Got it. And people can contribute and get people hands who need them all over the world. That's wonderful. I was not aware of that.

[01:09:23] And of course, I know Dave Krupa because we've interviewed him. Oh, did you? Okay. He's fantastic. He's phenomenal. Yeah. And I'm very jealous of the people that have participated in some of the climbing, something that I still think I want to do. But yeah, fantastic organization. Thanks for that. Dr. Adil Akar, thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate your time. And

[01:09:48] I'm looking so forward to seeing what's next. Me too. All right. We're good.